The Court of Appeals, in its Decision dated 5 January 2012, granted the appeal of PICE and reversed the Decision of the Regional Trial Court.
Here's a copy of the decision:
Part 1
Part 2
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Manghihina ang mga aspirants nyan... :(
ReplyDeleteThis is not good. Seems like civil engineers took a double-degree once they got a hold of their licenses.. Can they at least be required to take the architecture board exams before they get to sign and seal these architectural documents?
ReplyDeletewalang restriction kung ilang stories ang pwede nila idesign??...
ReplyDeletedarating ang panahon may "HOA, Arch'l Design, etc.." subjects na ang civil engg...
ReplyDeleteIf ever these Civil Engineers come up with a design for floor plans, exterior designs, etc... I think that they would only end up stealing ideas from Architects, considering that Civil Engineers have never studied about subjects like Design.
ReplyDeletewalang kwenta IAPOA
ReplyDeleteits unfair, for architects coz engineer is taking away our dignity, our source of income, our passion to be creative, and the years we have poured in just to earn a degree..and earn the title to be an architect.
ReplyDeleteits just unjustly and disgusting to know that this engineers are " gahaman " sa layman term..
enabling and or allowing civil engineers to sign and seal architectural documents is clearly injustice. in this case, why don't they purge the profession itself. they came up with the wrong decision here.
ReplyDeleted nyo na ginalang ung kurso nang mga arkitekto binastos nyo pa, they also have 5 years of studying and for what? para maging human robots? taga drawing lang? nakaka walang gana. bobo nang mga mambabatas ngaun
ReplyDelete...fellow architects...we've given all our lives just to realize this dream of being an architect and went through to endure those long tearful sacrifice have paid off after we've passed the board exam..and we proudly honored it to our parents...and now these people has the guts to come and shoving right on our face and boldly proclaim that they are the only ones who has the right to those plans...we've endure those harrowing hardships and we never gave up nor we've raised the white flag and now these threats to put us out of the picture is beyond the professional conduct... I WONT BACK OFF!... WE'VE BEEN DEDICATED...WE'VE BEEN MOTIVATED...TO PURSUE THIS DREAMS OF OURS UNTIL NOW..AND NOW ITS TIME FOR US TO SHOW TO THEM HOW WE ARE LETHAL TO DETER THESE THREATS...WE WON'T SURRENDER...!
ReplyDeleteSANA MALAMAN NG IBANG TAO AND PAGKAKAIBA NG GUHIT NA GINAGAWA NG CIVIL ENGINEER AT ARCHITECT BAGO SILA MAGDESISYON.....HINDI LNG BASTA GUHIT..MERON YANG KAHULUGAN.... KUNG GUSTO NYO MALAMAN...MAG-ARAL MUNA KYO NG ARCHITECTURE.....
ReplyDeletefuck the system
ReplyDeleteprepare for more garbage to rise
its unfair................kainis.........parang mawawalan n ng kwenta ang mga arkitekto.............malinaw naman trabaho nila..............bakit ganun cla........
ReplyDeleteOh no! Not fair for Philippine Licenced Architects. In the future they will leave the Philippines behind for better opportunities & RESPECT abroad!
ReplyDeleteOnly in the Philippines.....
ReplyDeletewag na tayo mag arki! mag c.e. na lang tayong kurso!!
ReplyDeletewhat will UAP do about this? tama if they really want to sign architectural plans they should be well educated about architecture and posses an architects license...or extend engineering courses to 10 years just to be sure they are well educated...5 years engineering courses and 5 years architectural courses...this aint about the money lets just be fair...
ReplyDeleteIt's not fun in the Philippines
ReplyDeleteWalang ng kukuha ng kurso ng architecture in the near future, competion would rise on civil engineering profession then those students na nagenroll on enginerring courses would be forced to fail, why? because the same reason as to why there are nursing students whos still does not have a work. in the near future Philippine architecture would be instinct just because the Philippine Court of Appeals killed the architecture in the country.
ReplyDeleteThe Problem is the system of the Law and the Lawyers and the Justices of the C.O.A., who do not know the difference of Architecture and Civil Engineering. If so, then we should have one course in college and make it Architectural Engineering. At first, they should look that civil engineers have no design subjects in their course and obviously the plans that they are signing in are "ARCHITECTURAL" PLANS. All are already their scope, from architectural, structural and civil works. We will fight for our right.
ReplyDeletefuck all the corrupt c.e. and the crocodile officials... if you want to steal our profession, then you must change the meaning of architecture in the dictionary... that,s it.
ReplyDeletemas maganda pa mag-aral ng arkitektyur sa ibang bansa...
ReplyDeletekc mas pinahahalagahan nila ang arkitektyur dun.
Very unprofessional and so unethical. Very disgusting.
ReplyDeletenakakadismaya :-( An humble opinion lang ha...isipin natin hindi lang licensed architects ang Apektado dito kasi kahit arki grad at student damay dito sa decision ng COA...there's a lot of consideration but they neglect all of this.
ReplyDeletearchitectural works is for ARCHITECTS,,engineering works is for ENGINEERS....
ReplyDeleteanu ba yan..nakakawala ng gana...kung ganun yong gusto nila, dapat magpetition din tayo...na maaari ding magsign ng structural ang mga architects kc mayroon din nman subject na AST,STRENGTH OF MATERIALS,DEFORMABLE BODIES at iba pa.....!!!!!
ReplyDeleteFive years study of Architecture + 2 years Apprentice = 0
ReplyDeleteCommon UAP Officers.. Gumalaw nman kayo!!!!!
What makes the situation worse is our justice system, if you notice sa mga courts around the country palaging mali sila sa pag desisyon about cases involving construction, architecture or any other technical matters, maraming di alam ang mga justices or mga abogado natin, they are not well-versed with matters like these, siguro dapat din tignan nila ang curiculum ng course of Law, maraming bobo sa mga abogado natin.
ReplyDeleteIt's disheartening to receive such decision form the court of appeals ,failed to appreciate what are the architects doing for the design and construction of our buildings,much more planning our communities.It seems there is no respect between professionals particularly the architects and civil engineers,they(ce's)knows their capabilities knowing their academic foundation and skills training on this particular field.The engineers should show their highest degree of respect much more of delicadeza by not pursuing their case.What will happen now?I know this is just a challenge,but we have to be on guard always that there is another profession that will undermine our integrity as the prime professionals in designing structures.I strongly suggest to president Mendoza this not the time to sleep,form a good team of lawyers to bring the case even to the Supreme court,For ARCHITECTS throughout the country let us unite and protect our constitutional right ,our profession,there is no profession that can do better in designing structures and planning our communities!May GOD help us always!
ReplyDeletewhat will our airport look like if those c.e.s will do the architectural designs? .... it will look like roads. :(
ReplyDeleteNakakawalang gana na mag-aral. It's so UNFAIR!!!
ReplyDeletewhat the F****! this cant be this is bullshit!
ReplyDeletemag sisilabasan na ang mga bahay/building na BOOM sa ganda este kabaliktaran !!! hahaha XD
ReplyDeleteano na mangyayari? ARCHITECTS tatanungin na lng ng mga CE if they need opinion? dpat magtake muna ng ARCHI ANG COURT OF APPEALS... as if they know so much!!!
ReplyDeletenakakawalang gana na mag-aral. at siguradong mas kokonte ang mga aspiring architects in the future, nangangahulugan lamang na ang mga maitatayong structures puro BASURA.
ReplyDeleteit's more fun in the Philippines! and only in the Philippines!!!
ReplyDeletespelling pa nga lang magkaiba na...where is the RESPECT here? haaay naku..kung talagang ganito na eh mas mabuti pa lahat ng architects sa abroad na lang mag.work...at least dun rerespetuhin pa tayo ng ibang building professionals...talagang wala nga ganyan sa states! bakit ba sa pinas lang ganito? ang bobo nman ng mga CE at ng korte (sorry for the rude words)
ReplyDeleteI hope this argument will come to and end and let there be respect amongst our specialty
mga swapang naman yan
ReplyDeletegrabe nmn mga civil ku2ning n ata nila lht ng trbho ng mga engrs. meron clng pang mech,electrical su2nod n arkitek??wew civil is for constructing roads not designing house??
ReplyDeletekami nagpakahirap pagaralan lahat tapos sila pipirma nalang samantalang di nila alam ano mga functions ng mga un!!!
ReplyDeletesinu pang uunlad sa mga arkitecto kung ganyan ang gagawin nila!
ReplyDeleteD2 NALANG TAYO SA ABROAD D2 MY ASENSO SA PINAS WALA DAHIL SA BULOK NA SISTEMA, MGA BOBO PA MGA NASA BATAS KAWAWANG PILIPINAS...
ReplyDeleteparang nawalan ng bisa nag license ng architect :( para san pa ang mga nakapasa ng board exam ng arki kung CE lang dn ang pipirma ng architectural plan :( magiging drafts man nalang ba ang architect!? NO WAY!
ReplyDelete"The Architecture Act of 2004."
ReplyDeleteThe State recognizes the importance of architects in nation building and development. Hence, it shall develop and nurture competent, virtuous, productive and well-rounded professional architects whose standards of practice and service shall be excellent, qualitative, world-class and globally competitive through inviolable, honest, effective and credible licensure examinations and through regulatory measures, programs and activities that foster their professional growth and development.
architectural drawings = architects (...can be)
ReplyDeletecivil / structural drawings = civil / structural engineer (...can be)
architectural drawings = civil engineer (...huh?! oh no! that cannot be)
GUSTO NYO PALA PUMIRMA NG ARCHITECTURAL EH, DI DAPAT MAGARAL KAU AT IPASA NYO ANG BS ARCHITECTURE NG 5 TAON, MAG-TRAINING NG 2 TAON, AT PUMASA SA BOARD EXAM BAGO KAYO PUMIRMA... WAG MASYADO GAHAMAN, SUGAPA AT BUWAYA...
bakit ganito?? INFERIOR BA ANG ARCHITECTURE SA CIVIL ENGINEERING??
ReplyDeleteanu na po ang gagawin ng mga ARCHITECT ngayon? at anu pong hakbang ang gagawin niyo? or magagawa niyo po? hope makatulong kaming non-architects, kasi affected din kami kahit panu.
ReplyDeleteanu po ang gagawin ng mga ARCHITECT ngayon? at anu po ang gagawing hakbang niyo po ngayon at magagawa niyo po sa order na ito? sana po makatulong kaming mga NON-Architect, kasi affected din kami.
ReplyDeleteTo those CE that pursue to reverse the court order through coa, you are such a gross professional, you can't be called a professional either cause you damn people don't understand what professional ethics is all about, it's about RESPECT for the training of each and every individual architectural student in the country to become a license architect after 5 years of design training, studying architectural principles, ethics of architectural profession, various field project analysis, urban planning, histories of architecture, professional practice and etc. And an additional 2 years apprentice before taking architecture board licensure examinations to become a Certified Professional Registered Architect from the PRC, what a sucks for the coa to reverse this battle we are fighting for, what the use for all the 7 years training we undertake just to be taken off of our Rights to sign exclusively for Architectural Plan? Those judges and lawmakers from the coa don't even understand what's the difference between a Damn CE, and an registered design and space planning professional Architect stands for. What a sucks law system we have here and ignorance and corrupt judges to add insult to injuries, yes only in the Philippines ONLY in the Philippines! we professional architects are so ashamed of your stupidity and ignorance in law, we won't be surprise someday that even lawyers or judges can sign architectural plans given the power so.....step up, be united UAP and fight for our rights in the higher tribunal to overthrow the damn decision given by the COA to those unethical and greedy civil engineers of the Philippines.
ReplyDeletesa ibang bansa na lang ako magppractice. hayaan ko na lang mapuno ng square ang pilipinas. ginusto nila yun e. desisyon nila. bahala sila. tayo na ang binabastos dito. hindi na tama to.
ReplyDeleteMagagawa pa naman natin ang trabaho natin, aminim nating mga arkitekto na from the past years mahina talaga ang architecture dito sa pinas, karamihan nag-aabroad...studyante palang po ako pero this will serve as an obstacle on proving the importance of architecture...maaaring maging daan ito para magising ang mga arkitekto natin, patunayan na malaki ang kontribyusyon natin sa industriya...
ReplyDeleteremember that "PROBLEMS ARE OPPORTUNITIES IN DISGUISE"
God Bless us, rise up, don;t give up...
TUP-arki
If only we had some Construction Lawyers like in other countries. This wouldn't be a problem.
ReplyDeleteIt's the end product that counts. What's done is done. We all aim to make our clients happy with our service. For most, you can really tell the difference with that of an Architect or a Civil's work. Architects understand the client needs and wants in terms of the manipulation of spaces, design concept because we have theory subjects. We are versatile enough to come up with a WORTHY design despite a limited budget because we are trained to be creative and resourceful. Moreover we have History of Architecture. For residential projects, we design HOMES rather than HOUSES. This is our advantage kaya wag kayong mawalan ng gana. Educated and wise clients will definitely go for Architects. Let us not forget, Architects are SERVICE oriented, not profit oriented.
ReplyDeleteDahil yan kay CE, Chiz Escudero! Grrrrrrrr!
ReplyDeleteONLY IN THE PHILIPPINES.. nakaka-disappoint..
ReplyDeleteWAG PO KAYO MAWALAN NG GANA .. BASTA ITULOY LANG NATEN MGA GINAGAWA NATEN... ILALABAN NATEN ANG ARKI ... HAHAH HNDI NILA TAYO KAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteok lang yan guys thing positive... parang bagay lang yan..ganito yan.. ang Pirated mura at nakakatipid pero madaling masira, pero pag ORIGINALl me kalidad, may dating, sosyal, astig at higit sa lahat nagtatagal,,, ikaw sa pirated ka ba o sa original? (original = architecture/architect) architects Creates original, works with class and passion... builds and Plans incredible structures...
ReplyDeleteE d sana ipatupad n din nila n mga Veterinaryo pde n din mang gamot ng Tao,
ReplyDeletePag lipas ng ilang taon puro Square nlang ang mga building sa Pinas
ReplyDeleteif that's the case,architects should also affix their sign & seal on structural documents to be fair enough to both parties...
ReplyDeleteLaws of the land were made for the benefit of the people.
ReplyDeleteProfessions are regulated by law not to serve the PROFESSIONALS but for the good and welfare of the people. Professions are regulated to ensure safety and quality of services.
Civil Engineering and Architecture overlaps in the area of building design and construction. Problema lang kung saan nagoverlap ay dyan ang may malaking kita. So ang case na ito ay malaking kawalan sa dapat sana ay kikitain ng Archi.
Sorry guys pero tingin ko ay tama lang ang decision ng korte. Saka medyo (medyo lang naman) naging gahaman kayo for setting a standard na taripa sa inyong services urging the registered members of your field of profession to comply.
So paano na yan? Pwede na pala ngayon lumapit sa mga Civil na Engrs yung mga gusto magpatayo ng bahay na hindi kakayanin ng kanilang hard earned money ang taas ng taripa sa singil ng Archi. So bagsak presyo na?
Buti naman ng dahil sa kaso na to eh maraming tao na gustong magpagawa ng bahay ang makikinabang. In the end the law truly serve its people.
bulok na sistema ng hudikatura..the word implies for itself..ARCHITECTURE for architects, CIVIL works for civil engineers..no wonder judiciary faces a crisis..
ReplyDeleteWhat are the steps that UAP is taking in response to this unfortunate news? Please give us an update.
ReplyDeleteOCCUPY PICE. OCCUPY SENATE AND CONGRESS. OCCUPY ALL THE POLITICIANS' HOUSES.
why can't the court of appeals understand the simple ruling...architectural plans are for architects, structural plans are for civil/structural engineers...napasimple naman para di nila maintindihan. inayos na nga ang dating batas ng bago, nas nalinaw at detalyado....bakit di nila maintindihan...last say would be from the supreme court...para matapos na yan
ReplyDeleteWe should do something about this. So they're like saying that a Cardiologist can diagnose as like as a Neurosurgeon (no offense intended, they go hand in hand BUT they have different specialization, AND THEY HONOR IT). You get it, we have our own roles in the society, keep it the way it is. UAP, please! LET OUR VOICES BE HEARD!
ReplyDeletear vs ce - neverending feud as a result of ignorance of pinoys on its professional functions..this explains why thousands of architects fled the country to practice their profession abroad..this is a living example of the corrupt justice system the philippines we have right now!!-sad fate for pinoy architects who toiled long years of study+licensure!! - "It's NEVER been FUN in the Philippines" :(
ReplyDeletePasintabi lang po. Hindi gahaman ang CIVIL ENGINEERS. It just so happened na kasama talaga ORIGINALLY ang pagdesign ng itsura ng building sa job description ng civil engineers. {Please read Republic Act 544)
ReplyDeleteWe just appealed to have our rights back.
nakakawalang gana naman..kung kelan ready na ko ng mag take ng board exam mawawalan ng saysay!
ReplyDeleteAn humble opinion lang ha...isipin natin hindi lang licensed architects ang Apektado dito kasi kahit arki grad at student damay dito sa decision ng COA...there's a lot of consideration but they neglect all of this.
ReplyDeleteIt's unfair talaga,kung may opportunity kayo mga architects mag abroad do it,as of now marami hiring architects all over the world kahit sa mga first world country,doon different ang arki and engineers mas malaki sahod.
ReplyDeletetakte...anu ba yan... d ba marunong magbasa ang c.o.a?..npakasimple architecture and architectural e kailangan magkasama mag asawa yan eh...ang labas eh prang kabet na...very un ethical cla..pwe... i pity them... its not fun in the philippines anymore..
ReplyDeletemas mabuting ng mag abroad mas clear p sa ibang bansa ang role ng arkitekto sa civil e! tama wala ng saysay ang batas ng pilipinas... super obviuos na nga eh.. tanga!!!
ReplyDeleteSeriously? I'm a student taking up Architecture. I've learned a lot from the classes that I take that aren't provided for the Civil Engineers. I'd like to see those Civil Engineers that approves of this construct a piece of crap.
ReplyDeletehay nako dadami n nmn s pilipinas ang design n parang combination ng road at asphalt,residential n prang box culvert, at mga fence n prng steel gratings.wawa nmn kmi mga arki..kokonti n nga population nmn dto s pinas..gnto p??????kumonti p ang rights!!!tama b mga k -ARKI???
ReplyDeleteHi. I'm an aspirant. I'm still on my long way to go. But with this decision, I feel like my biggest dream has been taken away from me and my fellow architecture students. It feels like our goal is now unreachable. This is so unfair. How selfish! Okay, this is want you want but don't expect good design outputs from the civil engineers because were they never trained to do so.
ReplyDeleteUAP officers do something about this.This is not right anymore..MAS MAGALING TAYO SA KANILA..do something,,
ReplyDeletethey must see that architects is all about architectural works and engineers is all about engineering works.
ReplyDeletedo not intercept the works of others it is against the law of business ethics ...Professional Property Rights ..
well we can for now is hoping that this law will be remove. damay tayong lahat. mula architects hangang students!!! useless din lahat ng pinag-papaguran at ang pinga-pupuyatan natin kung matutuloy ito!
ReplyDeletethis is a big joke. so many things will die here, the art of buiiding design, the families of architects, our dignity. only in the philippines where road engineers can sign a building plan.
ReplyDeleteBULL SHIT THAT LAW!!!! parang walang gamit yung R.A 9266..
ReplyDeleteNow even the students studying Architecture have been demoralize. How can we go back to the Phil if we have no more work or projects there.. hay kakadismaya..
ReplyDeletealthough di naman lahat pero just cant help it lang,
ReplyDeletegives a whole new meaning of p.i.c.e (phil inst of corrupt engrs)
WALA KWENTA!!! TAMA LHAT NG COMMENT!!!!
ReplyDeletet*ng in* :)
ReplyDeletebasahin nyong mabuti un court decisions & just respect it... "architect or CE" malinaw naman eh.. kau nag-alis ng karapatan sa sarili nyo na pumirma sa structural plans pero binawalan nyo ang CE na pumirma sa building plans... binabalik lang sa dati ung inalis nyo... Walang personalan, mas magaling talaga ang ARKI sa aesthetic kesa sa CE, pero kaya din ng CE gawin yun... sinaksak nyo kc yun maling kaisipan sa mga studs nyo eh...
ReplyDeleteplease post even if it's negative for the Architects
ReplyDeleteNad aral ako ng CE at nakatapos nito ng 5 years at kasalukuyang kumukuha ng arki at nasa ikaapat na antas na sa kursong ito... alam ko ang kakayahan ng isang CE dahil naranasan ko rn maging CE bilang studyante, ALAM NATING LAHAT MGA CE STUDENTS AND GRAD NA WALA NAMAN TALAGA TAU SAPAT NA PAGLILINANG SA ASPETO NG DISENYO SAMANTALA ANG MGA ARKITEKTO AY HINASA CLA SA LOOB NG 5 TAON SA LARANGAN ITO.... Ang aking katanungan lang ay bakit pa natin ito kailangan agawin sa kanila.... Sa aking pansariling opinyon "ibigaw lamang ang para kay pedro, at ibigay ang para kay juan".... Nakakalungkot isipin na baka sa paglipas ng panahon ehh tuluyan na rin mamatay ng Architecture sa ating bansa nakahit ako ay CE grad ay minahal ko n rin ang kursong ito.... Sa mga lesensyado at rehistradong arkitekto, sana wag ninyong hayaan na tuluyang angkinin ng mga CE kung ano ang naararapat lamang na para sa inyo.....
ReplyDeleteganyan ba talaga dapat maging reaksyon nyo???
ReplyDeleteAng galing ng abogado nasa CA, ang Definition palan ng Civil Engineer ay Architects, kaya pumayag na sila. Where in this World that Civil Engineer can sign architectural plans??????? Only in the Philippines .... Galing ng abogado na yon .... saan kaya nakuha nila ang definition na Civil Engineer at Architect ....
ReplyDeleteI am Civil Engineer, I feel for all Architects who studied 5 years and 2 years apprentice before having their license. But after reading these comments, it seems that these Architects are very unprofessional. Its not us who decide in this case, so stop commenting bad things on us. We are all professionals, act like one!
ReplyDeleteCige ipa design na sa Civil Engineer and building at tingnan natin kung saan maglulusutan ang mga column na yan at ang mga drop beam na yan lalo na doon sa space programming at orientation ng building kung saan nila ilagay .... Nakikita naman sa design stage ang mga design nila, di nila ma visualize what more sa beauty/aesthetic baka carton ang labas ...
ReplyDeleteBad decision...worst!
ReplyDeleteArchitectural Plans nga diba?? Edi pang-ARCHITECT po yun.. hindi naman porke marunong silang magplano e magagawa na nila kung anong nagagawa ng isang tunay na architect.. SPELLING pa lang MAGKAIBANG MAGKAIBA na, sa trabaho pa ga?? PLEASE RESPECT.PLEASE!!!!
ReplyDeletebastusan n yan, row 4 magdesisyon court of appeals bwisit n mga c.e yan..... UNFAIR
ReplyDeleteIPAGLABAN KARAPATAN NG MGA ARKI....
IPAGLABAN KARAPATAN NG MGA ARKI... ITS UNFAIR, KAMOTE
ReplyDeleteMAWAWALAN NA NG saysay pagiging ARCHITECT SA PILIPINAS!
ReplyDeleteHere's from experience. I know someone with a proposal for duplex house both an architect and civil engineer sent their proposal. The client selected the plain typical remake of the civil engineer because the bottom line was that it will save him P300k. He didn't appreciate the design, sustainability aspect of the architect's proposal, he just wanted to save money. To date though, that construction has been delayed for 3mos. by that engineer. I think that's what make architects unreachable for many clients in the Philippines who only wants to save money. Other nations value the design and safety IN ADDITION to meeting budget but they are willing to pay more if it means a valid healthy or safety issue or EVEN because the design IS forward-thinking. I'm afraid the clientele in the Philippines lacks that and hinders opportunities for current and future architects.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to fight this, start defending ur designs to future clients and make solid arguments. Once a client is satisfied, you will earn back their respect. Leaders, fight for the architect's dilemma and listen to their plea. They earned their right to their license but if overlapping is to occur then proper education and training and testing should also be required for engineers. Maybe it is a good idea to extinct CE and architects and create a combined curriculum specific to Philippine architecture-engineering practice and save parents both some money should they go this route
ReplyDeleteDear All,
ReplyDeleteafter reading all comments, its so sad that architects and C.e's are fighting each other in which supposedly we should do collaborations. After reading the C.O.A.'s decision and stand,they have also their concrete basis base on the existing laws (R.A.544, 545,P.D. 1096, R.a. 9266). Its so obvious that architets' law and c.e. law are always biased on each profession. And i do believed that this is the time that both parties must set and talk again and could come up with the best solution for all especially to our clients. I work in Singapore for almost 15 years and i really admire how there BCA-Building Construction Authority (the equivalent of our DPWH)draw a distinct line between the role of architects with the c.e. up to the point that c.e's are looking for a qualified person to act as an architect of their project and vice versa. It's a wake up call to both UAP and PICE to do something about this before the construction industry will be totally divided because of this childish issue. i am an architect in profession, and i am now practicing now in our localities here in Philippines, personally ask my c.e friends to design for the structural of my projects, but since i start my private practice i didn't get an invitation from them to be an architect or do the architectural design of their projects. It sounds unfair right? But God is good that He gave me the talent to be an architect that can come out a much well planed buildings and beatifully designed facade. My point is, we as an architect should not lost hope in regards to this law in Philippines but focus what we have and give the best service and design to our clients.I guarantee, clients will keep coming and let the building and our design speaks what architects can offer to the community then that we could say we are proud to be an architect. Mabuhay ang mga Pilipinong arkitekto. God bless us all!
Simpleng simple lang naman ang issue: "nasa naunang CE law at NBC ang karapatan ng mga CE na pumirma sa Building Plans (vicinity, perspectiv, Floor plans, elevations etc)? Sagot: yes malinaw na malinaw. Sa bagong Arki law: "inalis nyo ba un?" Sagot: OO. Di naman ang issue ay kung masmagaling ba ang Arki sa CE eh. Kayong mga Arki ang tawag nyo Architectural plans un, sa mga CE building plans un... Simpleng simple. Architectural plans for architects & building plans for CE. Ang linaw!
ReplyDeleteI suggest, COA should allow CE to notarize, tooth extraction, do surgery or magpaanak...ng baboy para mas wider pa ang coverage ng profession nila.
ReplyDeletewalang problema!pagalingan na lang ng design!bring it on engineers!
ReplyDeleteWAKE UP ARCHITECTS/// WALA NAMANG SINASABI NA KUNIN NG CIVIL ENGINEERS SCOPE NG ARCHITECTS, CIVIL ENGINEERING PLANS PO ANG PINAGUSAPAN DITO. YAN ANG LOGIC.. REVIEW ENGLISH SUBJECTS.. AT SAKA LAHAT NG NAKASAAD DYAN EH NASA RA544 NA YAN DI BA?
ReplyDelete"ONLY IN THE PHILIPPINES"
ReplyDeleteThe Goverment/ Court of appeals are made to serve people..
To pursue EQUALITY and JUSTICE....
Not to produce a BIAS LAW and decisions....!
Not to start the fire between professionals (particularly CE's and architects)
Are they just not well-versed with this matters?.. Ignorant? or should i say corrupt....!
WTF.. with the word it self...
Obviously, Architects are for Architectural plans and Civil Engineers are for Structural/Engineering plans
It’s just a piece of common sense....
It seems there is no respect between professionals particularly the architects and civil engineers. As professionals we should know our LIMITATIONS... Don’t be GREEDY and UNETHICAL by stepping out with your boundaries.....! They (ce's)knows their capabilities knowing their academic foundation and skills training on this particular field.
Those CE's want to sign architectural plans?... Well, Very simple... After being a licensed CE's ….. go ahead...! Take BS Architecture Course and pass the board exam....! Its Fair lng dba?.... After that.. walang pipigil sa inyo...!
We students /aspirants are just your audiences for now... we can’t do anything about this matter....
But the sad thing is “All of you are old enough to do and to know what is right"
Hindi pa mandin kmi licensed Architect.... "You guys just starting to ruin our dignity and future in this country"
its seems it’s better to work outside the country....
it’s not just about the better opportunity....
But it’s about the "RESPECT"....!!!
I'm not surprised why more pinoys prefer to work abroad :)
good job...! for the Court of Appeals ...!
itapon nyo pa ng itapon ang assets ng Philippines huh... >:)
kea bumabagsak ang pilipinas eh….
mismong kapwa pinoy pa naghihilaan pababa >:)
mahirap bang intindihin yung Architectural na word?
ReplyDeleteKung ang mga inhinyero sibil ay maaring pumirma ng building plans, ibig sabihin maari din sila pumirma ng iba pang plano na kinakailangan sa paggawa ng building tulad ng sanitary, structural, mechanical etc. Kung gayun bakit architectural plans lang ang kanilang pinipirmahan? Kasi walang arkitekto o inhinyerong sibil na responsable at lumagda sa palpak na disenyo ng gusali ang nahabla o nakulong. Pero kapag may nabalitaan na tayo na arkitekto na nakulong dahil sa palpak na disenyo ewan ko lang kung may inhinyero sibil na maglalakas loob na lumagda sa planong arkitektural.
ReplyDelete"Architectural" drawings signed by "engineers"... That's quite funny...
ReplyDeleteBWISET NA BATAS....walang kwentang mga MAMBABATAS... kc di naman sila ang apektao... kaya ayun BOTO NG BOTO sa di naman nila alam ang SITWASYON..... ANG MGA BAHAY NA NGAYON PURO 4 NA GILID NA LNG..... BUSET
ReplyDeletearki's or ce's ?????? still both professionals...... please act like one!!!
ReplyDeleteCE ako nyahahaha ang swerte koh nakakasign na ako sa Architectural bwahahaha... sarap ng buhay
ReplyDeleteNO MORE JOB FOR ARCHITECTS IN THE PHILIPPINES!!
ReplyDeleteKawalan ng gana to mag thesis.... :((( Badtrip!!!
ReplyDeleteAng baba naman ng tingin nyo sa sarili nyo mga ARKI! para kaung naagawan ng candy na pag-aari din ng CE!.... Kung talagang kau ang masmagaling sa pag gawa/design ng building plans, eh di kau na! Kau naman talaga eh! pero wag nyong angkinin o solohin ang pag-aari rin ng iba!... CE ang naunang profession sa ARKI! Malinaw na nakalagay sa CE Law at Building Code un! Tinanggal nyo lang at sinanay ang mundo ng ARKI sa maling paniniwala!... Wag masyado mayabang at gahaman!
ReplyDeletetanungin kaya natin mga ce kung bakit nasa west ang kitchen..
ReplyDeletebaka di lang nila kayang gawan ng structural mga design ng arki.. mga weak! anu gusto nila? ung madali lang? ung traditional? nacha-challenge ang mga arkiteks sa maraming aspeto pagdating sa designing, like climate change and calamities.. kung ang gusto ng ce basics lang, anu pang challenge ng profession nila? di na sila mag-grow kung ganun.. alam ng mga arki basics sa structural pero di nila pinangarap agawan ng propesyon mga ce.. because they know their limitations and they respect other professions. sana lahat ganun, wag naman gahaman. kinabukasan ng mga arkitekto at mga magiging arkitekto ang sinisira ng mga ce. insteead of filing cases sa court of appeals, why not work hand-in-hand for the benefit of both parties?
ReplyDeletea very simple bungalow with a poor client, he still needs a CE and AR to get his plans done? nahhh..
ReplyDeleteHahahaha.. kababaw naman ng mga architect na to.. pirma lang yan.. kayo din naman di marunong ng Design para Structural, copy paste lang din kayo..haha..
ReplyDeletePeace!!\m/
magkano kaya binayad ng CE sa CA?
ReplyDeleteWOULD YOU PLEASE READ CAREFULLY THE COPY OF CA's DECISION BEFORE POSTING YOUR COMMENTS HERE. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. IT'S CLEARLY STATED THERE THAT "BOTH" CIVIL ENGINEERS AND ARCHITECTS CAN SIGN ARCHITECTURAL PLANS. DI NAMAN KAYO MAWAWALAN NG TRABAHO! DI NAMAN KAYO INAAGAWAN. NAPAKASIMPLE LANG PO, KUNG MAS GUSTO KO KAYO NG CLIENT E DI SA INYO. RELAX LANG MGA KAPATID NA ARKITEKTO. WALANG BASTUSAN. NASA BATAS KASI YUN, SANA LNG BASAHIN NYO MABUTI UN NAKASAAD SA KOPYA NG DESISYON NG CA. TRY NYO BASAHIN AT INTINDIHIN! BAKA SAKALI MABAGO ISIP NIYO..
ReplyDeleteArki do better than CE, ans is yes and no, lets face it...CE drew ugly structure, depend on skills, I think, but agree that in general arki has better aesthetic but not always economic...Then why so furious with reverting what is in place before..Is arki was limited in signing their their dear documents??? Some Arki say is not about money..then you would not mind if some people settle for less ("ugly box houses"...learn to respect civil right and not to judge their choices..).. Those who think you will die because one of your finger was cut... Your already dead...Those who think they are really better surely they will find a way to emerge... After all the one who market better wins... I knew civil engineers in foreign country doesn't sign any single plan,but signing only time sheet earns Php1.2M a month (sounds easy but do you think you can find same job with such a salary?) CE can make a way to be always on TOP... Can you??? If not then keep on crying???
ReplyDeleteIbigay ang Arki professional services sa Architects at ibigay sa Engineers ang enginering services...that's simple "common sense"...wala na yata ngayon yan.
ReplyDeletewew.... bobo nga isang C.E. akalain mo iniba ung design ko ginawang sliding window ung maliit na awning window ko... ang sabi nya palitan natin yan ng sliding window maam pra makapasok ang malaking hangin at ska makakuha nang sunlight... bakit bobo xa? i2 answer: ORIENTATION....
ReplyDeleteyan ang one of the architects basic expertise... tingnan ko lang kung anong labas sa bahay nang potang cliyente na yun... sabi nya malaking hangin? diba pag sliding 50% lng ang hangin maka pasok? hahaha..... Only In Da Pilipins
Maybe this one of the reason why Philippines will not progress.. try kaya natin mga arkitek magsign nang structural plans at iba pa kung di ba magsiangal ang mga hinayupak na ito.. Cge try natin kami na man mag sign nang road concreting ninyu, palibhasa ang alam nyu lang na pagkaiba ng architecture at CE ay aesthetic, your not even close mga pare..
ReplyDeletedi man lang pinag isipan....
ReplyDeletewhats the good reason for approving that law???????? e isa lang naman ang makikinabang eh
ReplyDeletewhats the good reason for approving that law???
ReplyDeleteSUSUNOD YAN PATI IBANG PROFESSIONAL TULAD MECHANICAL ELECTRICAL, INDUSTRIAL ELECTRONICS COMMUNICATION INETRIOR DESIGN AT INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY PUWEDE NA RIN PUMIRMA SA ARCHITECTURAL.... SIRA ULO ANG COURT OF APPEALS MALAMANG ANG BAHAY NILA ANG NG DESIGN CIVIL ENGINEER MUKHA BOX....
ReplyDeleteCool guys cool!!! Engineers are Engineers and architects are architects, and that will remain forever. We architects should prove that our work is superior to those of engineers in terms of design quality, function and forms. Like wise Engineers have their specialized roles that we can not do, and we should not be doing even if we can. Don't shed tears guys, they can sign as many drawings as they can manage, but wise clients are not stupid to entrust to the engineers their design wishes. They know that most engineers generally can not do it as good as the architects. Let's start proving to our clients our superior design roles, and be friend with the Engineers, we need them as they need us. Let's drop the ego that we architects developed over years of studies. This is a competitive world. Frankly, I practice architecture in Western countries and that's the way it works. Our architectural profession contrary to your belief (as per blog) has not been stolen. Peace guys, peace!!
ReplyDeleteTo all arki, peace..please respect CE laws(R.A 544)..kung trabaho nang Arki, let the architect sign. but kung trabaho ang CE,let Civil Engineer sign.
ReplyDeleteSection 2, RA 544 – “The practice of civil engineering within the meaning and intent of this Act shall embrace services in the form of consultation, design, preparation of plans, specifications, estimates, erection, installation and supervision of construction of streets, bridges, highways, railroads, airports and hangars, portworks, canals, river and shore improvements, lighthouses, and dry docks; buildings, fixed structures for irrigation, flood protection, drainage, water supply and sewerage works, demolition of permanent structures, and tunnels.”
CE is allowed by RA 544 to prepare building plans./Elevation,Sections,... is part of building plans.
I truly sympathize with all you guys! but to be honest, we all need to sober up, rethink our position, support the organization so we can have a stronger fight in court. Interest groups who maneuvered this decision are well aware of the consequences. For one, the construction boom the nation has experienced right now is unprecedented so if we understand that the law of supply and demand simply applies here. meaning, these interest groups WANTS A BIG SHARE OF THE PIE !
ReplyDeleteAccording to Clinton" Its all about the stomach, STU- dents". We can always rant and say what we all want here and that is good i think. We can use all this anger ( if you call it) and muster enough support so we can convince those guys ( hiding under the cloth of a blindfolded woman with a weighing scale ) to redefine the meaning of fairness !
hoy... putang ina ko kang civil ka n ngcoment. ndi ako mgttaka kung mkit mraming bmabagsak n building kasi isa ka s malaking matunay na mga bulok ang civil.. putang ina ka mgaral ka muna ng architecture para malaman mo kung anu pinagssabi mo. ni ndi mo nga ata kabisado ang building code. ndi taripa ang pinaguusapan d2, rights ang pinagllaban d2. kaya kung kahit butil ang munggo my pangunawa ka pa. intndihin mo muna sinasani mo. parepareho kau ng mga abogaDo nyong mga BOBO.
ReplyDeletekung ganito lang ang mangyayari dapat noon pa para hindi ako magsayang ng tatlong taong pagiging zombie dahil 3rd plang... pumili nalang sna ako ng masmadaling kurso except engineering....i'd rather take up computer science...
ReplyDelete- markus
ito ang nasabi ni former Prime Minister ng singapore na si lee kuan yew about sa bayan natin.
ReplyDeleteCulture of the Filipino people.
“The Philippines had a rambunctious press but it did not check corruption. Individual pressmen could be bought, as could many judges. Something had gone seriously wrong. Filipino professionals whom we recruited to work in Singapore are as good as our own. Indeed, their architects, artists, and musicians are more artistic and creative than ours…
“The difference lies in the culture of the Filipino people. It is a soft, forgiving culture. Only in the Philippines could a leader like Ferdinand Marcos, who pillaged his country for over twenty years, still be considered for a national burial. Insignificant amounts of the loot have been recovered, yet his wife and children were allowed to return and engage in politics. They supported the winning presidential and congressional candidates with their considerable resources and reappeared in the political and social limelight after the 1998 election that returned President Joseph Estrada.”
unprofessional mga arki amp, rude word against civil engr's ba ang sagot?.. tsk tsk.. know how to respect guys...
ReplyDeleteWTF!!! MARAMI NA TALAGANG MGA ""BOBONG MAMBABATAS""!!!! P*T*NG INA!!! And like some comments said.. "COMMON SENSE".. ARCHITECTS are for architectural plans.. nd CE are for structural plans!!!!!! bullshit that law!!
ReplyDeletepanu kaming magiging architect palang.... kawawa naman hayyy... ano ba compensation ng civil engineer sa design? for ex. ang compensation ng architect sa residential is 10% of project cost including structural , plumbing, electrical, etc.... kung sila 1000 lang magkakaproject kaya tayo nyan...... regulated dapat yan... hindi pwedeng multi-profession ka in one course yan ang pagkakaintindi ko sa PRC. regulatory--malinaw..... yung nagsabing CE is allowed by RA 544 to prepare building plans... yan ba pagkakaintindi mo?.... swerte mo naman, nakahawak ka ba ng water color, ilang pencil na naputol mo? ilang eraser na nabili mo? naiisip mo ba naiisip ko?..... mababago ang decision lets go for it... go mga architects and future architects.......
ReplyDeletemaganda nga design nyo bagsak nman sa computation ng civil engineer
ReplyDeleteoo nga magaling nga kau sa design pero wla nman kaung cnabi pagdating sa pag-anlayze ng structure...kau ang mag-aral ng civil engineering para mlaman nyo n d lang puro design nyo ang mahalaga
ReplyDeleteEH KUNG GANYAN LANG NAMAN PALA EH PARA SAN PA ANG MGA ARKITEKTO??DANG BOBO NAMAN NG MABABATAS NA YAN...DI KAMI MAGAARAL NG ARCHITECTURE PARA LANG SA GANYAN NA FEEDBACK O OUTPUT..CIVIL ENGINEER IS FOR FOUNDATION OF THE BUILDING NOT FOR PLANS AND SIGNING BECAUSE THEY DONT STUDY ABOUT DESIGNING AND PLANNING...SO FCK UP C.E'S
ReplyDeletebuilding plans (ce) = architectural plan (arki)
ReplyDeletemadali lang naman intindhin yun dba...
actually d naman talaga tatayo ang isang bahay kung puro ganda lang....
saka ndi naman nang aagaw ang ce... it depends sa client kung cnu gusto nilang gumawa nun at mag sign.......
relax lang mga ARKI....CE has 5 different fields: Structural Eng'g, Project Mgt and Construction Engg, Geotechnical Eng'g, Water Resources & Transportation Eng'g... Sa dami ng oppurtunities, walang kaming balak mang-agaw pag di talaga namin linya... Nagkataon lang na nasa batas na pwede kmi magdesign at magsign & seal ng BUILDING PLANS (sa Arki tawag nyo Architectural Plans)... Di naman issue kung mas Maganda or mas Magaling kau mga ARKI sa pagdesign, ang issue kung legal ba at kung pwede ba namin gawin un! Ang linaw naman eh, pinapalabo nyo lang.. wag ganyan! Aminado kaming mga CE na masmay-alam kau kesa sa amin, pero di pag residencial at low rise buildings lang, kayang kaya namin yan.. nung 90's kumpleto ang curriculum ng CE sa building design, pero ngaun mejo kulang, pero sapat na para makapagdesign ng building plans... Relax lng sa pagcocomment! Basahin nyo muna ng kumpleto ung CA decision.. set aside your personal beliefs...Wag ipilit ang maling nakagisnan or maling naituro.. EASY LANG! MALILIWANAGAN KA RIN
ReplyDeleteWala kasi civil engineering palns o drawings sa isang gusali kaya ayun nilahat nila. Ang civil engineering ay ang paggawa ng kalsada, mga tulay at patubigan, sa madaling salita public infrastructure. Marami kasi civil engineers di marunong mag design ng strucutural na isang component sa building, kaya ayun di sila kasali kaya kawawa naman wala silang trabaho. Isipin ninyo may individual ba na kukuha ng isang civil engineer para magpadisenyo ng personal nyang tulay? Wala. kaya nagpapapanggap na kaya nya daw mag design ng building. Di kasi sila kayang bigyan lahat ng DPWH kaya ayun nang aagaw ng trabaho ng iba. Kawawa mga inhinyerong sibil dami dami kasi.
ReplyDeleteSige sa mga CE na lang kayo magpapirma ng plano. Mura at CHEAP yang mga yan! Bente pesos lang maglululundag na sa tuwa yang mga yan! Wag nyo babayaran ng Prof’l Fee ng mga Architect yan! Walang karapatang sumingil ng Architect’s fee yang mga yan dahil hindi naman Architect yang mga yan! Yung C.E nga na si Lopez may promo pa eh. Ayon kay Lopez, SUMMER PROMO!! FREE SIGN AND SEAL!! HAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeleteAndami ko ng nakasama sa project na CE wala namang alam yang mga yan sa plumbing, electrical, interior. Umaasa lang sa nalalaman ng trabahador kahit palpak at mali mali naman yung mga karpintero. Hindi nga kayang maglamay, magtyaga at magpuyat ng mga yan. Wag pati kayong maniwala na for marunong din daw sila ng Architectural.Umaasa lang yang mga yan sa mga na under graduate at under board sa Arki pagdating sa Architectural. Kahit nga yung Structural hindi pa rin nila kayang i-drafting, Iaasa pa rin sa Arki. HAHAHAHA!
ReplyDeletequote: unprofessional mga arki amp, rude word against civil engr's ba ang sagot?.. tsk tsk.. know how to respect guys..
ReplyDeletekayo mga walang respeto mga unggoy!
BUILDING PLANS?
ReplyDeleteyan po aY
ARCHITECTURAL PLANS
STRUCTURAL PLANS
ELECTRICAL PLANS
SANITARY PLANS
MECHANICAL PLANS
ETC.
YAN BA AY PWEDE PIRMAHAN NG CIVIL ENGINEER?????
CIVIL ENGINEERING PLANS = STRUCTURAL PLANS
ReplyDeleteNOT
CIVIL ENGINEERING PLANS = ARCHITECTURAL PLANS
hai tama ang course ko.hahaha
ReplyDeletece rules
ReplyDeletetuwang tuwa mga civil engineer.... feeling nila inborn talent(instant) magdesign.... ang batas hindi absolute kaya nga dapat baguhin kasi mali interpretation nyo... yung nagsabi na engineer lang marunong maganalyze ng structure? sigurado ka? magpakilala ka nga kasi bobo mo...... mag aral ka pa ng 10 semester para makuha lang basic ng design + 3840 hours apprenticeship and LEA... sa actual na talaga nagkakaroon ng kanya kanyang experience.... yun lang go arki hehehe
ReplyDeletediba kaya naman nagsimula itong issue na to kasi yung mga ARCHITECTS gusto nila sila na pipirma ng building plans.so ng-appeal ngayon ang CIVIL Engineers..at ito ang naging decision. kung umpisa palang hindi inaangkin ng architects ang mga plano..sana walang ganitong gulo..dapat kasi nililinaw yan..ang architectural plans dapat para sa mga architects, ang structural plans para sa civil engineers..simple lang naman yan..iba ang inaaral ng architects sa civil engineers..may mga gahaman kasing tao.
ReplyDeleteLong life Civil engineers!!!!!!..... ang bibitter nyo mga archi!!!!... Bago nagkaroon ng Archi nag eexist na ang mga civil engineer..!!
ReplyDeleteCivil engineering is the oldest engineering discipline after military engineering...
ReplyDeleteibig sabihin nauna ang military engineering...
mas una ang architecture kesa military engineering
THEREFORE,
mas nauna ang ARCHITECTURE kesa CIVIL ENGINEERING
Ang hinihingi lang ng mga Architects ay ang Architectural Plans, hindi Building Plans. Ala naman kasing Building Plans na sinasabi. Dati rati pwede pumirma ang Architects sa Structural ng 4-storey structures pero tinangal na yan sa RA 9266 at binigay sa Structural Engineers para magkasundo na ang Architectural Plans ay sa Architects at ang Structural Plans ay sa Structural Engineers.
ReplyDeletePERO
ang gusto ngayon ng PICE ay ang Structural at Architectural Plans pwede sa mga Engineers. Ano ang tawag jan?
im an CE student and i agree with the architecture students....
ReplyDeletewe as professionals must give respect to other professions in order to have a good relationship towards community progress.
...............................
architects working on architectural plans = well space and aesthetically planned built environment which leads community progress..
civil engineers working on structural plans = well assumptions of building stabilty leads to community safety.
......................
what about civil engineers working on both plans
=leads to XD
GO archi students .. fight for your rights
CIVIL ENGINEERING PROFESSION BULOK!!!!! Kya mukang 3rd world country at pangit ang maraming structure sa Pilipinas dahil yang mga structure/building na yan ay gawa ng mga flunker sa Arki board, mga karpintero, mga architect wannabes, etc. pero pinirmahan ng mga CE kahit pangit! Darating ang araw mas pangit pa sa bansang India ang Pilipinas dahil lalong dadami ang mga pangit na gusali na pirmado ng mga CE. Ang mga CE ang nagpapapangit sa bansang Pilipinas. Wala nang ginawa ang mga CE kundi papangitin at pagmukaing 3rd world country ang Pilipinas.
ReplyDeleteKapag hindi mo kayang gawin, hindi ka dapat pumirma. Hindi kaya ng mga Civil Engineer na gumawa ng katakut-takot na Architectural plans and details. Ang katotohanan ang mga Civil Engineer na nagpre-present ng Architectural plans sa kanilang kliyente ay nagpagawa lang sa mga Architecture graduate o students. Madalas kahit Civil/Structural plans, ipapagawa pa rin sa Arki, dahil hindi nila kayang idrafting. Bottom line. Hindi mo kayang gawin, hindi kayang pagtyagaang pagpuyatan, isipin at likhain. Hindi mo expertise = HINDI MO DAPAT PIRMAHAN.Ganun lang kasimple.
ReplyDeletedapat magaral ang mga civil engrs ng architecture para malaman nila napaka importante ng architectural design subjects. from design 1 to 10. from designing simple, complicated and complex spaces... ang mga mababatas tlga. ang tunay na alam nilang course eh ung profession nila.
ReplyDeleteengineers for engineering works!
ReplyDeletearchitects for architectural works!
only in the philippines
more more fun fantastic in the phil.
eh di sila na talaga!!! they don't even studied how to design a building structurally. kasi malinaw naman kasi na civil works lang sila. horizontal constructions lang. or if structures man demolition lang! para maging fair kasi architectural plans are for architects. civil engineering plans are for CEs. structural plans are for structural engineers.
ReplyDeletenagkataon lang kasi na ang mga CEs n yan hndi nila alam kng anong pinasok nila bago pa sila ngtake ng course n yan. i know a lot of them, they took CE kasi akala nila they really design buildings. pero hndi nila alam maling nakagawian lng ng mga pinoy mgpagawa sa knila kasi nga sa wala na silang madesign. ayun raket na nila mga residential si Juan naman basta mura GO! filipinos are really sick! when it comes to quality design. kaya napagiiwanan na tayo ng mga ASEAN nations eh di tayo nagmamature. -_-
kabastusan naman yan sa architects anu ginagawa ng uap hah...tskkk anu pa silbi ng architecture na course kung sa civil makukuha mo na ung rights ng architects...kabastusan naman un...tskk dats bullshit.....!
ReplyDeleteArchitects lang ang may subject na design.
ReplyDeletebakit ang Engineer ba meron ding design?
apektado na po kaming mga students na kumukuha ng architecture. baka po magsialisan laht ng ng-aaral ng archi. Sana naman po may limitation ang isat isa.
as a matter of fact po kasi mas mahirap ginagawa ng archi for they've been in this career for many years 5 years+2years=7 years po silang nagpakahirap para lang makakuha ng lisensya.
bwat design po may kahulugan hindi lang ito mga linya. :( kakalungkot lang na isipin baka sa hinaharap wala nag archi sa Pinas,.. :(
Instead of complaining of CA decision. Can I ask any Architect here? Give us an answer why you allow Interior Designer, Interior Decorator, Urban Planners and Landscape Architect get a pie of your market? And now that a large portion of your market were given to them, then want to us(CE) to be strip on our long time source of income?
ReplyDeletedaming coments.. wala na tayong magagawa mga collegues ganyang talaga nasa kanila ang pabor at desisyon. nagdesisyon na ang court of appeals, unless if possible dalhin sa supreme court. un ay kung maasikasa nila dahil nga may sariling issue din ngayon ang SC. but until now we cant do anything but accept the reality that our allied profession - CE has now the right to execute our profession without our approval, thus we as an architects cannot execute projects without their signed.
ReplyDeleteOo tama Lang... Architect draftsman Lang naman talaga cla....
ReplyDeleteIf this cant be undone anymore, dapat palitan na nila yung tawag sa Architectural Plans kung Civil Engineer nman ang gagawa at pipirma...Civil Engineer Plans (Di bagay)..pasencya na... alam ko din nman marunong mag-design ang mga C.E. pero alam kya nila ng history ng design na ginawa nila? eh baka sa HISTORY OF ARCHITECTURE lng din nman nagaling...
ReplyDeleteat para malaman ng publiko ang pagkakaiba ng gawa ng dalawang propesyon.. kasi pagpumalpak ang mga Engineer na yan sa pag-gawa ng design at plano... parang niyurakan na din nila ang reputasyon ng pinakamamahal nating propesyon bilang isang ARKITEKTO!!!!
Mag-isip isip nman kayo..hindi yun tanggap lng ng tanggap....hay...PINOY NA MAMBABATAS...Mag aral din kayo ng Architecture ng 5 taon at magpraktis ng 2 taon...bago kyo magdesisyon.. naparang alam nyo lahat ang ginagawa at aspeto ng bawat isang LISENSYADONG FILIPINONG ARKITEKTO....
ce rules daw oh!kakapal ng mukha nio..pwe..ndi pa tapos ang case..so wag muna kaung matuwa.. ung nagsabing Bago nagkaroon ng Archi nag eexist na ang mga civil engineer..!! magbasa ka nga..haha
ReplyDeleteBinitawan ng mga Architect ang pagpirma sa Structural (4 storeys and below). In exchange ang Architectural drawings ay kailangang Architect lang ang pipirma. Kung tutuusin hindi talaga dapat pumirma ang mga Civil Engr ng Architectural, dahil kahit kailan lagi lang naman silang nagpapagawa ng Architectural drawings sa mga Arki graduates. Incompetent sila pagdating sa Architectural. Eh makulit tong mga Civil Engineer, gustong gusto nila na silan lang ang pipirma ng Structural pero gusto nila pipirma pa rin sila ng Architectural kahit incompetent sila dito. BASTUSAN NA TO!!! Yan ang mga issue dito mga kababayan.
ReplyDeleteIt could be a matter of giving choices: original vs pirated. But pirated is illegal. Are you an ILLEGAL PRACTITIONER? And you will agree that CLIENTS may be tolerated to patronize ILLEGAL and PIRATED? LAWS are made, and they are there for a GOOD cause.
ReplyDeleteLEGAL or ILLEGAL?
At the end of the day...dapat ang mananaig ay ang sa ikabubuti nating lahat.
Respect each others profession, do our own thing based from our strength and capabilities...and we should work together as a team. And part of our responsibilities is to educate the clients also to understand each disciplines...d scope & limitations.
ARCHITECTURE is a SERVICE. Kasama na dyan ang sakripisyo na madalas ay gusto mo lang makapagsilbi at makagawa ng mabuti at maganda para sa mundo...to showcase your talent and to make the world livable...PERO SA PAULIT-ULIT na pagkakataon ay ipinagkakait pa sa iyo.
Sabi ng tenyente sa nco sa ibabaw ang main reinforcement;
ReplyDeleteSabi ng major sa ilalim dapat ilagay ayon sa nco;
Tanong ng colonel sa tenyente; anong klaseng slab' sagot cantilever; saan dapat ang main reinforement' sa ibabaw; galit ang colonel, bakit sa ilalim ang main reinforcement; order po ng commander.
This was actually happened during construction; the major who is the Sq commander is an engineer, The tenyente who is the oicc happens to be an architect, the colonel is the overall commander;
what happened next?
The major and the nco was relieved of their duties, the tenyente was promoted.
Ibigay na lahat sa mga engineer Pati kaharian ni satanas na hari ng kasinungalingan;
ReplyDeleteHindi ba kasinungalingan ang inaangkin ang hindi kanya?
JUAN 8:44
Kayo’y sa inyong amang diablo, at ang mga nais ng inyong ama ang ibig ninyong gawin. Siya’y isang mamamatay-tao buhat pa nang una, at hindi nananatili sa katotohanan, sapagka’t walang katotohanan sa kaniya. Pagka nagsasalita siya ng kasinungalingan, ay nagsasalita siya ng sa ganang kaniya: sapagka’t siya’y isang sinungaling, at ama nito.
siguro kahit hanggang two or three story buildings payagan ang mga CE pumirma. kasi majority ng mga nagpapagawa ng bahay, nagtitipid, kung dalawa ang kailangan bayaran, medyo magastos nga naman. bihira ka naman makakakita ng CE na nag papractice ng architectural design sa mahigit pa sa 3 story. gawan na lng nila ng limit.
ReplyDeleteAng tawag diyan Civil Architects...heheheh o kaya Architectural engineering....or BSEngineering major in architecture....
ReplyDeleteUnbelievable decision, nakakawalang gana. Di man lang nila inisip na both profession depend on each other. One cannot exist without the other. Court of Appeals nga kayo, you will grant whatever would appeal for your selfishness and greediness.
ReplyDeletehindi kaya me mga kamag-anak, kapatid, nanay, tatay, asawa o ano pa man ang mga asso justices na yan sa coa na mga civil engineers din kaya pinanigan nila?
ReplyDeleteactually sa college of engineering walang architecture... meron college of architecture.. nkahiwalay nga un e.. akoy isang civil engineer... at alam ko din ang sitwasyon nyo... kung gusto nyo lumaban e di umapela kayo sa supreme court,, diba?? kesa pumutok mga buchi nyo jan " puro walang kwenta lahat ng civil engineer na pinagsasabi nyo." naku... wala yan mapapala... first year ako nun e architecture ang course ko... nag-shift lang ako sa civil dahil gusto ng dad ko.. my dad is an engineer(structural)... sabi nya... hindi lahat ng architect kaya ang structural/civil... ako ay ndismaya dat tym wayback year 2000... kasi first place ako sa lahat ng drawing competition at pangarap ko tlga mag-architecture...today registered civil engineer n ako.. and i think may kulang pa rin sa architecture n dapat pagtuunan ng pansin.. structural design dapat ang ilagay sa achitecture para lubos maintindihan ng mga architect.. ang problema naman ng mga civil engineer e yung mga concept design ng mga architecture.. pareho may problema both side.. but in the end mag-ggovern pa rin ang civil kasi matagal n nyang pinag-aralan ang structural design ng lahat ng klase ng structure...
ReplyDeleteHow can you get a fair decision from this member of the Court of Appeals Justice Barza?
ReplyDeleteRead his disbarment case...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/71902945/DISBARMENT-Barza#archive
Architecture Act R.A. 9266, Sec. 36. Collection of Professional Fees. – It shall be unlawful for any unregistered person to collect a fee for architectural services except as an employee collecting a fee as representative of a Registered Architect.
ReplyDeleteYan ang isinasaad ng Architecture law. Kaya kapag ikaw ay sinisingil ng isang Civil Engineer sa services niya na Architectural Designs, pwede nyo silang wag bayaran. Kapag nangulit sila pwede nyo sila ireklamo sa Professional Regulation Commission. Any Architectural design service or offer coming from Civil Engineers or anyone who is not a Registered Architect, dapat LIBRE/WALANG BAYAD! Dahil wala silang karapatang sumingil ng Professional fee sa Architectural services.
hays.. kakadisappoint tlga ang decision :( respeto nlng sana sa bawat profession.. parehas nman nten kelangan ang isat isa e.. Go arki :)
ReplyDeletehalatang 1st year lang talaga nadaanan mo sa arki hehehehe..... di mo alam na may intergal/differential calculus, timber, strength of material, steel, etc sa curriculum.... isa yun sa mahirap sa architecture student life kailangan time management para makareview ka ng structural and matapos mga plates..
ReplyDeleteBAGO KAYO DUMADA. PAKIBASA MUNA. PAKIINTINDI. THANKS. :)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.docstoc.com/docs/16435814/The-Practice-of-Civil-Engineering-and-RA-9266-_Architecture-Act
Walang dapat ikagalit ang mga arki., wala naman nawala sa kanila. nagkaroon lang sila ng kashare.. dat's it., and it's been there for decades. There are many good engineers pag dating sa designs, and there are also good architects., why don't we just let our clients decide on whom they will entrust their buildings....dba?
ReplyDeleteAn Architect is for architectural plans a Civil engineer is for civil or structural plans...the civil engineers should have respect with the RA 9266 "The Architecture Act of 2004"Civil engineers doesn't know how to design architecturally with respect to function,circulation,aesthetic,character of buildings,type of designs,or even proper proportions or balance...it is clear that Civil Engineers are boastful,greedy,and no respect to Architects coz they only wanted to be higher than Architect especially in Construction...THIS IS ONLY HAPPENNING IN THE PHILIPPINES but not in other countries...ARCHITECTURAL PLANS ARE FOR ARCHITECTS NOT FOR CIVIL ENGINEERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE SPECIALTY IN DESIGNING BUILDINGS ARCHITECTURALLY.....
ReplyDeleteimagination is more important than knowledge...
ReplyDeleteIs this really true? I heard from some people that this isn't true.. Them civil engineers are just trying to live their fantasies. Anyway, please enlighten me.
ReplyDeleteI have been practicing Architecture for the past 35 years. During the first 10 years, I have prepared about 40 plans with perspective and submitted such to prospective clients.I did not get paid by most of these people on grounds that they don't have the funds to start. I waited. Years passed by and my 2 children entered college. None of them took up Architecture saying there is no money in it.
ReplyDeleteYet I continued my work because I love it and I feel I could express this love in my work. I had dreamed that maybe I can contribute to the establishment of a truly Filipino Architecture definable against the Architecture of
other countries.
Then I found out that my children are right. There is no money in Architecture. Only love.
The plans I made were already built but it is not in my name. A CE copied it and completed construction documents which were supposed to be architectural, signed it and was given building permit by the OBO. This is not a isolated case because I know this CE.
How can I put that CE to bar?
Another opinion is that those CE's are allowed by their Act to do buildings but limited only to Public Buildings or Public works. Never gross.
Another opinion comes to my mind. Let the people decide what type of house they want. Strong or beautiful. I can do both.
Kahit pagbali-baligtarin at kahit anong palusot, hindi kayang ipaliwanag na ang floor plans, details at perspective ng isang residential at commercial building ay Civil Engineering plans. Ang totoo ang mga pinirmahan ng mga CE na tinatawag nilang Civil Engr'ng plans ay mga disenyo at ginawa ng mga Architectural graduates o students. In short wala talagang kakayahan ang mga CE na gumawa ng Architectural drawings. Dahil wala silang kakayahan, wala silang karapatang pumirma ng Architectural plans.
ReplyDeletesabi nyong mga architect magaling kayo, as the old saying said "you cannot put a good talent down" kesa pumutak kayo ng pumutak dyan, ipakita nyo nalang ang diference ng work nyo sa work namin mga engineer. kaya walang nangyayari s pilipinas dahil sa ganyan ugali. naturingan kayo mga degree holder asal kalye kyo, kung may reklamo kayo, daanin nyo sa due process. shame on you
ReplyDeletewala ka pala eh..:) defense mo dapat bakit pwede ka magdesign? tanong ko kung pano liability ng civil engineers kung sila nagdesign--- sa civil code of the philippines... kasi pag structural lang hindi kasama architectural kawawa naman client nila ...
ReplyDeleteTo the guy above... you've got the nerve to show you're ass here... kapal ng mukha mo!
ReplyDeletewala naman kasi arki na pumapasok sa malacanang..... SO unfair... Ganito na ba kabobo ang mga mambabatas ng Gobyerno natin at Pinag isa ang kakayahan ng Civil Engineer sa pagiging Architect... We become a draftsmen for the rest of our lives and studying for 5 years... Its so fucking Bullshit...
ReplyDeleteWe become a draftsmen for the rest of our lives and studying for 5 years.... F- - - - -g B - - - - - t! That's what written. Can't you compete? A - h h - - e!
ReplyDeleteyou are asking me if i can design architectural plans? my answer is yes. kahit civil engineer ako i can prepare an architectural plans.i know the minimum dimensions of each parts of the building. ikaw naman ang tatanungin ko, based on construction law, anong liability ba ibinibigay nyong mga architect? as far as i know based on IRR 62.2.2, the law mentioning 15 years warranty on permanent structure. anong components ba ng building ang lasting for 15 years w/o repair? is it the structural member? when masonry cracks appear on wall, you architect would say, "it is due to thermal expansion/contraction" and no warranty would apply. in reality kaming mga structural engineer ang huling liable in the building. better luck next time!!!
ReplyDeleteto the person above, who is a civil engineer i suppose:
ReplyDeleteyour concept of architecture is as archaic as your knowledge. not because you know how to draw and know the minimum parts of each part of the building doesn't mean you can practice architecture. ARCHITECTURE IS MUCH MUCH MORE THAN WHAT YOUR BASIC KNOWLEDGE OF THE PROFESSION IS ALL ABOUT.
to the person above, who is an architect i suppose:
ReplyDeletei will not practice architecture if the law prohibits it. as i read the above comments (i suppose by an architect) i notice na parang ang yabang nyo naman para sabihin na kayo lang ang may alam ng architecture. many people who got a mind greater than architect or civil engineer in creating a concept of a building.
Im a registered civil engineer for 17 years now. During college i studied along with the 10 sem c.e. curriculum in the Ph - the three divisions architecture course of the International Correspondence Schools of Pennsylvania. I got almost 3.0 (pasang awa)grades on C.E. major subjects, most A's, some B (Outstanding) grades on Architecture.
ReplyDeleteToday I'm an associate of Architects tasked to do structural designs and I never envy them even I'm excellent and have the capacity doing architectural plans(theoretically)respecting professional ethics.
My personal opinion is this: Let everyone be responsible to his work. Can we prohibit midwifes deliver a baby, do OB Gyne's berated them and have stage complain yet?
The bottom line is: If you're a prospective client who want to build a commercial complex, do you look into the profile and accomplishment of a professional? Bunshaft/DeBlois - 92m Leverhouse, FF Cruz - 1,000,000 kilometers 8 lanes road. Do math win? Please think.
isa sa anak ni FF.Cruz ang asawa ay isa sa kaptid ni penoy yan ang sagot sa mga tanong ng Arki.
ReplyDeleteAttention Naval Architects, Landscape Architects & Interior designer you might be the next CE target, so better watch out, what a shame & a disgrace to our country that those Judges come up to such a ruling, may be its better to abolished Architecture in our poor little country & promote Civil Engineering instead, may be foreign students will come to study in our country? why not it's like shooting of two birds in one bullet... tsk tsk tsk!I should have taken Civil Engineering instead of Architecture....
ReplyDeletekaming mga CE super galing! habang nagaaral ng Calculus at iba pang mga Math subjects nmin natutunan din nmin ang mga subjects ng Architecture at the same time, kaya after we pass the CE board exam heto pwede na kmi mag sign & seal ng Arch'l. documents, he he he, sabi nga nila its like hitting two birds in one shot...tsk tsk tsk poor Arki's.
ReplyDeletethere are many things architects can do that civil engineers can't...and vice versa. alam n'yo ba talaga ano kaibahan ng architect at civil engineer?
ReplyDeleteanyway, reality is.,this court rulings blah blah blah does not matter, even being an architect or a civil engineer, ang mag-mamatter is kung sino 'yong magaling sa field nila. it's important to know the law but the most important question for me is "kung architect ka, magaling ka bang architect?" kung sagot mo hindi, well, good thing alam mo, you can improve if you like...kung sagot mo yes,great!be on top,create name and be a significant citizen(of course, payaman ka!) kung ang sagot mo naman,di ako sure,pweh!tumahimik ka na lang...o baka gusto mo mag-nursing na lang (ok pa ba nursing ngayon?) imho ^^,